关于内观（Vipassana)一个令人迷惑的问题

Speaker: This question is from Decent Diwan.

提问转达者：这个问题来自“体面的Diwan(Decent Diwan)”

Sadhguru: Woah!

萨古鲁: 哇

Speaker: "Respected guru ji. I'm a Buddhist and a vipassana practitioner. I have a question which I've asked many vipassana teachers and other gurus, but everybody said that no one can answer this. In one of your video you mentioned, and also it is said in Buddhism, that rebirth is due to our unfulfilled desire or karma. I accept this but then a question arises. Let us suppose I took birth for millions of times, because of my karma and desire，but before my very first birth, there was no body, no mind, karma, desire or nothing of me existed, then why and how that very first birth came to existence"?

提问转达者：尊敬的Guru，我是一个佛教徒，一个内观禅修者。我曾经询问过很多内观老师、以及很多Guru一个同样的问题，但是他们所有人都说没有人知道这个问题的答案。在一个视频里您提到过，在佛教里也是这样说的，之所以会有转世，是因为我们的业力以及没有被满足的欲望。我接受这个说法，但是同时也产生了一个疑问。让我们假设，由于我的业力和欲望，我已经轮回了几百万次。但是在我第一次出生之前，没有身体、没有头脑、业力、欲望... 有关我的任何东西都不曾存在。那么第一次出生是如何发生的呢？

Sadhguru: Now, even I'm wondering about that, about you! Well no you're a decent guy, I'm like this what to do. Let's take that question further back. It's not just about your birth.Well in the yogic culture，there are theories which are explained in the form of dialectical stories how Siva was like Shava. Shava means a corpse. He was inert, phenomenal energy but inert. Then energy or Shakti came and danced around him, upon him. Then he got kind of woke up.

萨古鲁：好吧，现在就连我也开始琢磨，你到底是怎么到这儿来的啦？你看，你是个体面人，而我又是这副样子，这可怎么办？好吧，现在让我们一起把这个问题继续往回倒…它所涉及的可不止是你的出生，在瑜伽的文化里，很多理论是以民间故事的形式讲述的，在其中一个里面Shiva是一具Shava, Shava的意思是尸体，他是惰性的，惊人的能量，但是是惰性的，能量，Shakti，在他身边跳舞，唤醒了他。他就醒了过来。

Well, we are, you know, picturizing it as a man and a woman, but that's not what we're talking about, inert means nothing happening, no reverberation. No reverberation means no creation; energy got introduced, reverberation started. From a simple basic reverberation it got more and more complex. As reverberations became more complex it became matter, matter became small molecules, they became planets, planets became many things, life happened, variety of things; you know…the evolutionary theory from there on.

你们看，通常我们会把这看成是一个男人和一个女人，但这是误解，惰性意味着什么都没有发生，不会发生响应，没有响应意味着创世还未发生。接着能量出现了，响应开始发生。起始于一个简单的、基本的响应，接着一切都开始变得越来越复杂。在响应变得更加复杂以后，物质出现了，然后物质变成了小的分子，分子变成了行星，行星上产生了各式各样的事物，然后生命出现了，就像你们所知道的...进化论从此开始执掌生杀大权。

Evolutionary theory only starts after life has started or at the beginning probably, but if you go back creation itself, we may not know the exact trajectory of how it happened, but we approximately know how it happened even as per modern science. So in the modern scientific parlance, the same thing is said today – that if you apply energy, not even into it, just around it. Suppose you create vacuum in a container and apply energy, not into the vacuum, just around it, virtual protons and virtual neutrons will erupt. That means creation begins to happen.

进化是在生命出现以后才开始的，或者可能是在（生命出现的）早期开始参与运作的，不过如果你要去探寻创世的起源，恐怕还做不出精确细致的描述。但是我们大概其能够知道它是怎么发生的，这就连现代科学也能做到。现如今，用科学术语做出了同样的描述：如果你有一个真空，然后对它施加能量，不用在它的里面，在这个真空的周围就可以，类质子和类中子就会（从真空里）冒出来，这意味着创世开始了。

Proton, neutron just have to get together for an atom to happen. Once an atom has happened, creation has started. So similar things are said in modern science. I don't want to go into any theories, but obviously creation began somewhere. Somewhere means it may not be within the projections of human mind in terms of time, because it's not one. But in the yogic system, there have been estimates that there have been eighty-four creations till now. Eighty-three creations till now, this is the eighty-fourth one. And up to one-hundred-and-twelve cycles of creation can happen. Beyond that, creation will be material-free, just pure energy creation. But we're talking in terms of maybe billions of years or trillions of years, I don't know. But those projections are made. Well, obviously it's just a theory. Nobody can prove or disprove anything about it. But it looks like a plausible theory, because the markings of eighty-three creations are there in our system, in various aspects of life around us, the markings of eighty-three, and this being eighty-four are there for those who look very closely at it.

质子和中子只需要合在一起就可以创造出原子。一旦原子出现，创世就正式开始了。所以说现在科学也认识到了同样的事情。我不想做理论探讨，但是很显然在某个点创世发生了。“某个点”并不意味着人类的心智在时间轴能够去度量它，因为那个点不是一个时间。但是在瑜伽的系统里，到现在为止，估算出了大约84个创世。到现在为止有过83个创世，这是第84个。最多可以出现112个创世。在那之后，创世就不再是物质性的，它将以纯粹的能量形式出现。但是我们说的都是几十亿年、或者是几万亿年尺度上发生的事情，这些是我所不知道的。但是这些预测是存在的。当然了，很显然它们只是理论。谁也证明不了它存在、或者它不存在。不过这个理论看起来是可信的，因为之前的83个创世在我们的系统里、在我们生命中的方方面面都已经留下痕迹。如果仔细地去寻找，这84个创世的痕迹都能被发现。

So how did you, such a decent guy happen? Well, so this question doesn't go that far as I took it just now. It's talking about "If I did not have karmic substance, how did I happen?" That's the question. Well, you don't need a spiritual answer, Charles Darwin himself has explained this. You were a single-celled creature and then you became two-cell. Then you became three-cell, then you became multi-cell. Now you become little more. Little more only, decently better. A decent development from a single cell has happened. So in the process from the single-celled animal, from an atom to a molecule, right now this is a wonderful time to ask this question, because there is virus. A virus is not a full-fledged life. It has proteins and enzymes to make it a life, but it's not yet life. Only when it enters your cell, it has a life. But in... by itself, it has no life. Just a certain combo of protein. So decent, (talks aside - what Dushyant? Speaker: Diwan) So, you were also pre-life, became life, became more and more complex life.

那么话说回来，这么一个体面的家伙是怎么来到这里的呢？其实要回答这个问题，不用追溯到那么久远。这个问题其实是在问：“要是我没有这些业力的因素，又是怎么到这里来的呢？”其实你不需要一个精神性的答案，查尔斯达尔文他老人家早就解释过了。你曾经是一个单细胞生物，然后分裂成两个细胞，然后变成三个（四个），然后你就变成了一个多细胞生物。现在你变得更加复杂了一点。也就那么一点点，稍微体面了点。一个单细胞体面的发展历程。从一个单细胞生物（到现在），从一个原子到分子…现在正是提出这个问题的好时机，因为病毒出现了，病毒并不是一个完全的生命体，如果有蛋白质和酶，它可以变成生命，但是它暂时还不是生命。只有当它进入到你的细胞里，它才开始拥有生命。只是它自己，它还不是生命。它只能算是一个蛋白质的组合。那么体面的…（转头问：“体面的什么来着？”）问题转述者：Diwan。所以你以前也是一个准生命，然后变成生命，后来又变成更加复杂的生命。

Complexity itself is karma. Karma is not necessarily – even now as you sit here –karma is not necessarily only what you do like this. The thoughts that pass in your mind are karma, emotions that pass in your mind right now are karma, simply a thought just passed in your mind. You looked at the person next to you, "What? Why is he here, he should be on the roof with the monkeys". Just like that, you know, sometimes thought like this come. Hello? So this karma just happened inadvertently, not caused by you, caused by the monkeys dancing on the roof. So because monkeys came there, you looked at this guy; at a certain angle, he looked a certain way to you. Maybe it's the lighting, maybe it's the way he sat, maybe something, and a thought came and went. Now you performed a karma, tch, that somewhere, you look at another human being and you think he's a monkey. Now, this won't stop here, do you understand? Now you looked at him and thought, "You're a monkey." Tomorrow we changed your department and you're in the monkey department. "Oh my god, I have to work with this monkey today." It will continue. And if suppose the situations are placed like that, he is in charge of the department, you have to work under him, "Do I have to be instructed by a monkey like this"? It will grow. And this is how you became a racist. All right? Because initially it's just a, passing thought. Then depending on situations, how they corner you, here, there, there – slowly it multiplies. This is even happening to every other creature. So gradually karmic substance builds up, builds up, becomes more and more complex. Well, clearly evolutionary sciences are telling us, the initial human beings were a very simple, half-bent human beings, very small brain. They couldn't think much, they just survived like any other creature. Everybody knows that, right?

复杂性本身就是业力。就像你现在坐在这里，业力不一定是像这样（向前伸出拳头）去做什么。此刻你头脑中出现的念头是业力，你心中产生的感情也是业力。（业力）就像你脑海中飘过的一个想法那样普通。你看了一眼坐在你旁边的人，“什么？他怎么会坐在这儿，他应该坐在房顶上和猴子在一起...”就是这样，你们懂的，有时候这样的念头会出现，对吧？于是业力就这样不经意地出现了，不是因为你，都怪房顶上的猴子。（点头征求同意）就因为上面那些猴子，你看着这个家伙；而他也正从某个角度、在以某种方式打量着你。也许是因为光线，也许是他坐着的姿势，结果一个想法出现了、然后过去了。你就这样行使了业力。在某个地方，你看着另一个人，然后你觉得他像一只猴子。你看这一切它自己是不会停止的，你们明白吗？今天你看着他、然后想：“你是一只猴子。”明天我们就要让你换一个工作的部门，让你去猴子部。“啊天哪！我今天要和猴子一起干活？”这一切会继续下去。假如情形变成这样，他是部门负责人，你必须得听他的。“我难道必须得听从一只猴子的指示吗？”情况开始变严重了。你就是这样变成一个种族主义者的。明白了吧？其实在一开始只是一个从脑海中飘过的想法，结果随着情形变化，它们开始在这儿挡住你、在那儿驱使你，这里、那里....慢慢地开始加倍，这种情形也发生在其他生物身上，慢慢地业力因素开始聚集、聚集，变得越来越复杂。所以，进化论正在清楚地告诉我们，一开始人类很简单，他们只是些站不直的类人，很小的脑子。他们想得不多，为生存活着，就像其他生物一样。这一点大家都理解，对吧？

So from there, you build your karma. I don't know why nobody could answer this question for you, everybody knows this. Maybe they thought you're not worth answering. Because I am such a fool, I don't think anybody is not worth answering, because I don't think any question is not worth answering.I'm taking all kinds of idiotic questions from all over the world. (Laughs) So right now you're wasting your time very indecently, because these are all questions of the vain, because mainly your questioning is towards whoever those... I don't know who are those people that you ask questions, in some way you want to make a fool out of them. That's all you're interested in. You're not interested in knowing anything about yourself, you are not interested in having tools for your transformation or growth. You said you went for vipassana. Vipassana means no questions. (Laughter) Simple instruction, just do it, do it, do it and do it, because that is a process which demands perseverance as the greatest quality.

于是从那时起，你开始积攒你的业力。我不知道为什么别人不能回答你这个问题，每个人都知道这些呀。也许他们觉得，你不配知道答案？可是我是一个傻瓜，我不会觉得有谁不配知道答案。因为我不觉得有什么问题是不值得回答的。我是指那些来自全世界各地的、各式各样的白痴问题。（笑）那么现在，你正在不体面地浪费你的时间，因为这些都是没有意义的问题，因为你的那些被提问者大部分……我不知道你的这些问题是问给谁的，不过从某种角度看，你是想让他们出丑。这才是你真正的目的。你对于了解你自己并不是真感兴趣。你并不在乎是否拥有转化和成长的工具。你说你去内观，内观意味着不提问题。（笑）很简单的指示：只是去做，只去做，然后继续做……这个过程所需要的最重要的品质就是毅力。

Gautama taught vipassana to large groups of people, because there was no time to prepare them. He was everyday moving from village to village, town to town.No time to bring understanding into those people. So no teaching, no question. Just simple instruction. Get the instruction right, just do it, do it, do it, slowly it will transform you. It's a bit laborious process but a fantastic process，that even if you have no clue what you're doing, if you just do it, slowly it will transform who you are. When I say transform you, every aspect of you including your chemistry. Gradually, it will transform. It's a laborious process, because in those times, you must understand he was teaching 2500 years ago. 2500 years ago, the common wavelength of the society was not intellectual understanding,the common wavelength of the society which lived hard lives, was perseverance. People could persevere. Today, to make them persevere you have to talk to them for hours and hours and hours, because they think they understand everything. Those days people had no such problems, they knew that they don't understand. So you had to just instruct them and say, "Do it." And... Those were good times for the gurus, because if you give a instruction and say, "You must do it," you just do it.

乔达摩把内观的方法教授给了一大群人，因为当时没有时间去训练他们。他每天都要从一个村子去另一个村子，从一座城镇去另一座城镇…他没有时间让人们去领会到什么。所以，没有讲授，没有问题。只有简单的指令。学会正确的指令，然后就这么去做，去做，去做...慢慢地它就能转化你。一个耗时费力的过程，不过也是一个奇妙的过程。就算你根本不知道你在做什么，只要你能这么去做，慢慢地它就能转化你的存在。当我说转化你，指的是你的化学组成的所有方方面面，慢慢地，它们都会发生转化。这是一个耗时费力的过程，因为在那个时代，你要明白，那是2500年前，在2500年前，社会上盛行的沟通频率不是理性思维，那时的生活艰辛，社会盛行的波段是坚韧不拔，人们能够持之以恒。在今天，你要是想让人们能够坚持，你需要跟他们讲很多很多的话，因为现如今的人们，他们觉得自己什么都懂。那时的人们没有这个问题，他们知道自己什么都不懂。所以你只需要给他们指示，然后说：“这样去做。”那时可是Guru们的好日子啊……因为你只要给出指令，然后说“做吧。” 人们就会照着去做。

You know my mother, some yogi in Nandi hills... She once we went to Nandi hills and she showed me the cave where she was initiated. She gave a... That yogi gave her some mantra, I don't know who he is, anyway. And she never had a picture or she wouldn't even talk you know, utter his name. But every day, she did something with eyes closed. Right through our life, we've been her life. You know, four children, husband, is her life, she married at the age of seventeen and that's her life. But before that, she was initiated and this yogi told her, "Whatever happens with your life, you must do it every day." Every day she is doing something with her eyes closed. We say, "What are you doing?" Say, "Well, this yogi gave me a mantra, I just do it." We want to know what's the mantra. So we played all kinds of tricks on her – tried to compel her, emotionally, what... blackmail her, "You tell us this mantra." Such a gentle and easy person to deal with, always she was, but not once no matter what, either to her husband or to her children she ever told the mantra, because the yogi said, "You don't share this with anybody." I mean to say it was so easy to instruct them. If I tell you, "Keep this to yourself," you will put it on the social media. (Laughter/Applause)

比如我的母亲... 那时在Nandi山上有一位瑜伽行者...她有一次带我去Nandi山看她曾经接受过开启的山洞，她曾经接受过…那位瑜伽行者教给过她一段咒语... 我并不认识这位瑜伽行者....她从没摆出过他的照片，她就连他的名字都不会提起...但是每一天，她都会闭上眼睛做些什么...我们的一生中她每天都是如此。我们，她的孩子们、丈夫，就是她的一生。她十七岁就结了婚，那就是她的生命。但是在那之前，她被开启过。而这位瑜伽行者告诉她：“无论你的生命中发生什么，你每天都要这样做。”（于是）她每天都会闭上眼睛做些什么。我们问她：“您闭着眼睛在做什么？”她回答说“有一位瑜伽行者给了我一段咒语，我就这样做了。”我们想知道那个咒语是什么。我们使用了各种诡计，试着去强迫她、打情感牌，甚至……去要挟她。“您把咒语告诉我们。”她是那样温柔随和，一直都是，可是她一次都没说过，无论怎样。没有对她的丈夫或是孩子，一次都没讲过这个咒语是什么。只是因为那位瑜伽行者曾经对她说：“你对谁都不可以讲。”我想说的是，看到他们有多容易听从指示了吧。如果我跟你们说：“谁都不要告诉。”你们（转眼就）会把它发到朋友圈里。（比划着用手机发信息）

So because giving instruction was very effective and simple in the previous generations, especially 2500 years ago, Gautama chose this path – no understanding, no teaching, obviously no questioning, just do it. Only to those who gathered around him, who traveled with him, who were in close association with him, to them he taught shoonya, because that needs understanding. Without bringing substantial understanding, that won't happen. So you went to vipassana. That means you must just shut up and do it, not ask this question, that question, because that question or the answer will not in any way add to your practice. The practice has been designed in such a way, irrespective of who you are, if you do it, it will work. It's just that it's a bit laborious. You have to do it for hours every day for a long period of time, but it will work. It's a fantastic device for those times. Even now it is for a whole lot of people. So don't waste your time. The decent thing for you to do is... If you're here, I don't know where you are. If you're here, take instructions and just do it. Otherwise stick to the vipassana and do it. One way or the other, take one forward step, rather than standing in the same place and looking all over the place. It won't add to your life in any way. It's just that in foolishness you will think you're smart by gathering these things. Maybe now I've said what I've said, you will go and tell somebody else, "You know what Sadhguru said, this is what it is, even he doesn't know, tch", (Laughter) or you will make it your answer and put it on the social media. Whatever you do, it's of no use. Existentially, if you want to move on, you must do something existential within you. You do psychological things and you think you will move on, you will not.

所以正是因为在过去的时代给出指令是如此地有效和直接，特别是在2500年前， 乔达摩才会选择这种方式—— 没有理解，没有教授，当然也不会有问题，只是去做。只有对那些围在他身边的人，那些与他一起旅行的人，那些亲近他的人，他才教授了Shoonya，因为那是需要理解的。如果没有足够多的理解，Shoonya是不会发生的。那么你去内观了。那意味着你只需要闭上嘴、然后开始去内观。停止问这问那，因为这些问题和答案不会以任何形式增进你的练习。这个练习是以这样的方式设计出来的，无论你是谁，只要你去做，它就会管用。只不过它有一点儿费时费力。每天都要做很多个小时，练习很长一段时间，不过它是会起作用的。在那些时代它是一件神奇的工具。即使到了现代，对很多人来说它仍旧有效。所以不要浪费你的时间了，你应该做的体面事是……如果你在这里，我不知道你到底在哪里…如果你在这里，听从指令，然后就去做吧。否则的话就坚持去内观，坚持去做吧。这条路或是那条路，无论怎样都应该向前迈出一步。而不是站在原地，四处张望。从任何角度讲，这样做对你的生命都是无所增益的。只有出于愚蠢，你才会觉得收集到更多的东西，你就能变得更聪明。也许现在我说了该说的，结果你仍旧会到处去跟别人讲：“你们猜怎么着，萨古鲁是这么说的，就连他也不知道答案。”没准儿你还可能自己想出一个答案，然后把它发在社交媒体上。无论你怎么做，都是没有意义的。从存在的角度讲，如果你想前进，你需要在你的内在做一些存在层面上的事。你做心理层面上的事，然后你觉得你会进步，你不会的。

You know what is my handicap, tch? You want to know? Simply being straight and honest is my big handicap. Yes. No deviousness, this is my handicap, what do you think? Some of my advisors think this is a handicap – I'm too straight and blunt about too many things, Tell me, "Sadhguru it's not a handicap..." Hey! (Laughs/Few Laughs) but that's the way I will be. You don't like it..

你们知道我的缺陷在哪儿吗？你们想知道吗？那就是过于直接和真实，这就是我最大的缺陷。好吧，不会拐弯抹角，这就是我的缺陷，你们怎么看？说啊，萨古鲁，这不是缺陷！”嘿！有些我的顾问觉得这是缺陷— 在很多方面我太直接，太直白了。可是我会一直都这副样子。你们不喜欢是吗？

Love&Grace

爱与恩典

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萨古鲁：唯一的事就是我想让这些信息广泛传