如何与患有抑郁症的朋友沟通呢?

How to connect with depressed friends

The one conversation that uplifted me more than any other in my life was with a woman who told me how, a few days earlier, she drove her Jeep Wrangler to the edge of the Grand Canyon and sat there, revving the engine, thinking about driving over. Even though I had severe social anxiety, in that conversation, I was totally at ease. 

在我的一生中， 最受鼓舞的一次交谈 是与一位女士，她告诉我 几天前她是如何 把她的吉普牧马人开到大峡谷边上， 坐在那里，加大油门， 想着要不要开下去。 虽然我有严重的社交焦虑 但在那次谈话中，我是完全放松的。

She told me what was going on in her life in the days and months leading up, what her thoughts were at that exact moment, why she wanted to die, and why she didn't do it. We nodded and half-smiled, and then it was my turn to talk about my journey to a dining table in the hygienic community area of the mental health wing of a mountain-town hospital. I took too many sleeping pills, and after they treated me for that, they were like, "Hey, we would love it if you would be our guest in the psych ward." 

她跟我讲她最近生活中发生的事， 包括这之前的几天或几个月时间里 以及那时她在想什么， 为什么她想结束生命， 以及为什么没有自杀。 我们点点头，微笑着。 接下来轮到我对全桌人 讲述我的经历了， 那是在一座山城医院 的心理健康诊室 社区卫生中心的一张餐桌旁， 我服用了过多的安眠药。 我接受治疗后， 他们说：” 嗨，我们很欢迎你 住进我们的精神病房。” 

We joked that her suicide would have made a way better postcard. 

我们开玩笑说，她自杀的照片 可以做成相当不错的明信片。(Laughter) 

We talked shop. 

我们还讨论了各自的经历。 

She allowed me to be deeply depressed and have a genuine connection to another person, simultaneously. For the first time, I identified as somebody living with depression, and I felt good about it -- like I wasn't a bad person for it. 

她让我在重度抑郁的时候 仍可以与其他人有真诚的交流。 这是第一次， 我被诊断患有抑郁症， 但我自我感觉良好—— 觉得不会因此 就变成了不受欢迎的人。 

Now imagine one of the people at that table was a member of your family or a close friend. Would you be comfortable talking to them? What if instead of the hospital, they were at your kitchen table and told you they were really depressed? 

想象一下如果饭桌上有你的家人， 或者好朋友， 你还能这么自在地 跟他们交谈吗？ 假如他们不是在医院， 而是在你家里的餐桌上， 告诉你他们感到非常抑郁呢？ 

The World Health Organization says that depression is the leading cause of ill health and disability worldwide, affecting 350 million people. The National Institute of Mental Health reports seven percent of Americans experiencing depression in a year. So depression is super common, yet in my experience, most folks don't want to talk to depressed people unless we pretend to be happy. A cheerful facade is appropriate for casual interactions. A depressed person can ask for extra syrup in their pumpkin spice latte without explaining that they need it because they're trapped in the infinite darkness of their soul and they've lost all hope of escape --  again. 

世界卫生组织的数据表明， 抑郁作为世界范围内 导致不健康和残疾的主要原因， 影响着 3.5 亿人。 美国国家心理卫生研究所 也在报告中指出， 每年有 7% 的美国人 受到抑郁症的困扰。 抑郁症是非常普遍的。 但是在我看来， 大多数人不喜欢 与患抑郁症的人交谈， 除非我们假装成很高兴的样子。 假装愉快对于偶然的交流是合适的。 抑郁的人会要求在他 的南瓜拿铁中加双份糖浆。 但不会解释他们需要这个 是因为他们陷入了 灵魂的无尽黑暗中， 并且已经没有了逃出的希望。又来了。

Depression doesn't diminish a person's desire to connect with other people, just their ability. So in spite of what you might think, talking to friends and family living with depression can be really easy and maybe even fun. Not, like, Facebook-selfie-with-Lady-Gaga- at-an-underground-party fun -- I'm talking about the kind of fun where people enjoy each other's company effortlessly. Nobody feels awkward, and no one accuses the sad person of ruining the holidays. 

抑郁并不会让人们丧失 与其他人交流的意愿， 只是丧失了交流的能力。 或许你不同意， 但与抑郁的家人或朋友交谈 可以非常容易，甚至有趣。 不是像在 Facebook 上发和 Lady Gaga 在地下派对的自拍的那种有趣—— 我说的有趣是指， 人们可以毫不费力地 享受彼此的陪伴， 不会有人觉得尴尬， 也不会有人指责 抑郁的那个人破坏了假期。 

Why does this chasm even exist? On the one side, you have people living with depression who may act in off-putting or confusing ways because they're fighting a war in their head that nobody else can see. On the other side, the vast majority of people look across the chasm and shake their heads, like, "Why you gotta be so depressed?" 

为什么会有这种隔阂存在？ 一方面， 有些陷入抑郁的人 或许会表现得令人扫兴或者困窘， 因为他们的大脑里有一场 没有人看得到的思想斗争。 另一方面， 大多数人会忽略隔阂， 握着他们的手， 问：“ 你为什么这么不高兴呢？” 

You may recognize a divide like this in your life. Do you want to build a bridge across it? You may not want to build a bridge -- and that's a totally valid choice. Or maybe you'd like to build a stronger connection, but you have a lot of questions and concerns. You're what I might call "bridge curious." 

在你的生活中也许 也会发现这种隔阂， 你想架一座桥跨越它？ 也许你并不想—— 这是一个完全正确的选择。 或者也许你想要建立更牢固的联系， 但是你有很多问题和担忧。 你就是那个我称为“好奇桥"的人。 

Here are some possible reasons why some of you may avoid depressed people. You might be afraid that if you talk to somebody while they're depressed, you're suddenly responsible for their well-being. You're not expected to be Dr. Phil. Just be friendly -- more like Ellen. 

可能是以下这些原因， 令大家不愿意接触抑郁的人。 也许你是害怕， 当你与抑郁期的人说话时， 你突然就要对他们的健康负责了。 你并不想成为心理辅导大师， 只是想表达友好—— 就像艾伦那样。 

You may worry that you won't know what to say, and every attempt at conversation will be awkward, and the only time you'll feel comfortable is when you both just give up on talking and stare at your phones. Words are not the most important thing to focus on. You might fear seeing your shadow. Hey, if you have been successfully outrunning your personal emotional demons, that's awesome. May the wind be at your back. 

或许你是担心不知道说什么， 每次试着开口的时候会很尴尬， 唯一觉得舒服的时候， 是双方都放弃交谈 专心玩手机的时候。 其实说什么并不重要， 你或许害怕看见你的影子。 嗨，如果你已经成功超越 个人情感的恶魔， 那就太棒了。 你会事事顺意。（爱尔兰祝福语） 

You can be the least woo-woo person in the world and still connect with depressed people. Maybe you've heard that depression is contagious, and you're afraid of catching it. Bring some hand sanitizer. 

你可以是世界上最没有吸引力的人， 但仍与抑郁人士紧密相依。 或许你听说抑郁会传染， 你害怕也会得上。 带上消毒洗手液吧。 

You're much more likely to catch the joy of human bonding. 

你最可能被传染的是 与人亲密交往的愉悦感。 

Maybe you see depressed people differently. You think of them as flawed or defective. Multiple university studies have shown that A students are more likely to have bipolar condition. Our brains aren't broken or damaged, they just work differently. I spent a lot of years thinking happy people just don't get it. 

或许你对抑郁的人有歧视， 你认为他们是有缺陷的。 很多大学的研究结果都表明， 最优秀的学生最容易患精神分裂症。 我们并非脑子坏掉了， 只是对事情的想法不同而已。 多年来，我一直认为 快乐的人是糊涂的。 

I did eventually stop discriminating against happy people -- 

我最终停止了对快乐人士的歧视。 

I began battling depression when I was eight, and decades later, to my surprise, I started winning. I shifted from being miserable much of the time to enjoying life. I live pretty well with my bipolar condition, and I've overcome some other mental health conditions like overeating, addiction and social anxiety. So I live on both sides of this chasm. And I'm offering some guidance based on my experience to help you build a bridge across it if you want to. It's not hard science, but I worked with a lot people I know who've lived with depression to refine these suggestions. 

我从八岁就开始跟抑郁做斗争， 数十年后，意想不到的是 事情开始有效果了。 我从一个大多数时间都在难过的人 变成了享受生活的人。 我在这种两极分化 的情绪中生活得很好。 并且我战胜了一些其他精神疾病， 例如，嗜食，毒瘾和社交焦虑。 所以我在两种状态下都生活过。 我想提供一些建议， 以我的生活经验为依据， 帮助人们在隔阂之间架起一座桥， 如果你愿意的话。 这并非艰涩的科学知识， 只是我通过与很多熟知 的抑郁患者一起工作 提炼出来的建议。 

First up, some things you might want to avoid -- some "don'ts." One of the most off-putting things you can say is, "Just get over it." Great idea -- love it, it's just we already thought of that. 

首先，不要做以下这些事， 一些 “不该做的事”。 最令人不愉快的话之一就是， “ 克服它就好。” 好主意——我喜欢， 我们都是这么想的。 

The absence of the ability to just get over it is depression. 

抑郁就是因为丧失了 克服的能力啊。 

We feel it in our bodies -- it's a physical thing for us. And medically it's no different from telling someone with a broken ankle or cancer, "just get over it." Don't be hell-bent on fixing us. Like, thank you, but ... the pressure can make us depressed people feel like we're disappointing you. Also, things that make some people feel better may not work for us. You can't cure clinical depression by getting ice cream ... which is unfortunate, because that would be living the dream. 

我们的身体可以感觉到抑郁—— 这是一种生理反应。 这和同那些踝关节损坏 或患有癌症的人讲“ 克服它就好 ” 并无不同。 不要执着于治愈我们。 谢谢你，但是 ... 这句话迫使我们这些抑郁患者 觉得我们令你失望了。 还有，做那些可以让其他人快乐的事， 对我们或许不起作用。 你不可能通过吃冰淇凌治愈抑郁症。 这很不幸，因为那是梦中才有的事。 

Don't take a negative response personally. So, I have a friend who, about a year ago, messaged me that he was really isolated and depressed. And I suggested some things for him to do, and he was like, "No, no and no." And I got mad, like, how dare he not embrace my brilliant wisdom? 

不要太在意不好的回应。 大概一年前，我有一个朋友 给我发消息说他非常孤独和抑郁， 我提议他去做一些事情， 他说 ：“不，不，不。” 我气疯了， 觉得他怎么能不听 我这绝妙的建议呢！ 

And then I remembered times I've been depressed, and how I thought I was doomed in all possible futures, or everybody suddenly hated me, and things like that. It didn't matter how many people told me otherwise -- I didn't believe them. So I let my friend know I cared, and I didn't take it personally. 

然后我想起来我也抑郁过， 那时我也觉得自己没有未来， 或是每个人都会突然讨厌我之类的。 无论有多少人告诉我不是那样的—— 我根本不相信他们。 所以我让朋友知道我是关心他的， 并不会因为他的拒绝而生气。

Don't let a lack of bubbly happiness freak you out. It's not a shark attack. "Call the coast guard, my friend is sad!" 

不要因为没有虚幻的快乐而崩溃。 这不是鲨鱼袭击。 “打电话给海岸巡逻队， 我的朋友难过！” 

We can be sad and OK at the same time. I'm going to say that again, because in our society, we're taught the opposite, and so it's counterintuitive. People can be sad and OK at the same time. 

在抑郁的同时， 我们也可以很好地生活。 我要再说一次， 因为这与社会灌输我们的理论相反， 是违反常理的。 抑郁的同时， 我们也可以生活得很好。

So some of these things may apply to you personally, some may not. Take what's useful. And remember, you don't have to connect. If you want to, here are some suggestions that may help -- some "dos." Talk to us in your natural voice, right? 

我说的这些也许有一部分 对你个人来说适用，有些不适用， 听取那些有用的吧。 记住，你不是非与他们交往不可。 如果你确实想， 接下来的一些建议也许会有帮助—— 一些 “ 该做的事情”。 用自然的语调跟我们交谈，好吗？ 

You don't need to put on a sad voice because we're depressed -- you don't sneeze when you're talking to somebody with a cold. 

不必因为我们抑郁， 你就换上一副难过的嗓音—— 跟感冒的人谈话时，你也不打喷嚏吧。

It's not rude to be upbeat. You can be you, OK? If you make an offer to be there for us, clearly state what you can and can't do. I have told people, "Hey, call or text any time, but I might not be able to get back to you that same day." It's totally cool to not make an offer, or to make a narrow offer with really clear boundaries around it. Give us a sense of control. Like, get our consent. I have a friend who, a while back, when I was having a depressive episode, reached out and said, "Hey, I want to check in with you. Can I call you every day? Maybe text you every day and call later in the week? What works for you?" By getting my permission, she earned my complete confidence and remains one of my best friends today. And my last suggestion is: interact about not depression, aka, normal stuff. I have a friend who, when people were worried about him, they would call and ask if he wanted to go shopping or help them clean out their garage. Your depressed friends could be a good source of free labor -- 

乐观并没有错。 你依然可以做你自己，好吗？ 如果你愿意提出帮助， 清楚地说明你可以做什么， 什么你做不到。 我曾告诉大家， “随时都可以给我打电话或发短信， 但我不一定能及时回复你。” 不提供任何帮助， 或者只提供有限的帮助都可以。 让我们有种掌控感。 比如，得到我们的赞同。 我有一个朋友，在前一段时间， 当我在抑郁期的时候， 联系我说：“ 我想问一下你， 我可以每天给你打电话吗？ 或者每天给你发短信， 过后再给你打电话， 哪种方式好？” 通过征询我的意见， 她得到了我的信任。 至今仍是我最好的朋友之一。 我最后的建议是： 不要交流关于抑郁的事， 也就是，交流正常的事。 我有一个朋友，当大家担心他的时候， 他们会打电话问他想不想去逛街， 或者帮他们打扫车库。 你患抑郁症的朋友可以成为 不错的义务劳动者。 

What I'm really getting at is, invite them to contribute to your life in some way, even if it's as small as asking you to go see a movie that you wanted to see in the theater. 

其实我真正想说的是， 让他们以某种方式为你做点 对你生活有帮助的事， 即使是非常小的事， 比如说和你一起去看一部 你想要去电影院看的电影。

So that's a lot of dos and don'ts and maybes, and it's not by any means a definitive list. The thing to remember is that they're all grounded in one guiding principle. It's what allowed the woman in the Jeep Wrangler to start me on the path to recovery without even trying. She talked to me like I belonged and contributed exactly as I was at that moment. If you talk to a depressed person as if their life is just as valuable, intense and beautiful as yours, then there's no need to build a bridge between you, because you've closed the chasm. Focus on that instead of your words, and it may be the most uplifting conversation of their life. What could that do for somebody you care about? What could it do for you? 

所以有很多可以做的， 不可以做的，以及不确定的事情， 这份清单的内容不是固定的。 只需要记住它们都是基于 一个基本的指导原则， 就是这个原则，让那位 吉普牧羊人车里的女士 甚至不需要刻意尝试 就让我开始康复了。 她与我谈话时让我觉得我和她一样， 让我感同身受。 如果你和抑郁症患者交流的时候 让他们感到他们的生命 和你的一样有价值，热情和美丽， 那你们之间就不需要搭桥了， 因为你已经消灭了隔阂， 注重于交流而不是你说的内容。 这也许会成为他们生命中 最受鼓舞的交谈， 这可以对你关心的人产生什么影响？ 可以对你产生什么影响？ 谢谢。 （掌声） 

完

这里是《TED医学和生物》的温暖世界